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Elanor
Follower of the Path
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 329
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:07 am    Post subject: Unity Reply with quote

How do you pull all the strings together? Fit all the stray ends in to one story?

I have never attempted to write anything even close to a novel before (have been one of those that only dream it, perhaps even say it, but never actually do it). I'm trying to change that.
So this is my most prominent problem at the moment. I have ideas, but I don't have a unified idea, I think. Bits and pieces don't necessarily fit together. Or, I don't know. How do you tell what fits and what doesn't? Do you actually have to plan everything beforehand? I want to just start writing! (Yes, I know you have to plan at least a little.. But I also like to let the story write itself as much as possible)
And how do you know that your idea for a story is enough for a novel, and not just short story material?

So, do you have some tips and methods that you're willing to share with someone that's not as experienced as you?
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mornara
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy, lots of things here to remember.

First off, when you're writing something as big as a novel, you have to plan. TRUST me you have to plan, or you'll spend the next five years in rewrites and frustration. Now, you don't have to have every detail planned, a lot will write themselves into the story as you go, but you do need an outline.

What sort of outline? For me, it works to write a synopsis of the story. Write out the general plot, any big twists, a little bit about the world surrounding the story. If you need a map, make it now. Fit your story to the map.

Second in the outline, do a rough draft of chapters, and what will go in each one. If you're like me, the chapters will change as the story changes. But having the rough outline will make it easier to set up your goals.

When you have many disparate or loose ideas, sometimes it helps to write each one down on a separate piece of paper. Let these pieces sit where you can see them. Now, as you think about them, start adding ideas beneath them of how they could work in a story.

Example: Luth needs to be in the town, but for the idea to work, he's supposed to be hiding. So, he's been wanting to go see this new show, but since his parents think such things are of the devil, he snuck out with his girlfriend to go see it. While there, he sees his aunt coming around the corner, and so he goes and hides in an abandoned shop, where he comes face-to-face with destiny.

Make sense?

As you start fleshing out ideas, they will start showing parallels and you'll go, oh that's how those two fit! Then you can start organizing them into one big sheet of paper as a cohesive story.

Personally, I'll also write about a dozen scenes from the story, to start getting a feel and direction for where it's going. These are usually between 500-3000 words long, and will give you some anchoring points. It will also allow you to "just start writing".

Don't obsess too much over detail as you go, you can add little things in later. Do be careful though, if you add in a major plot detail after you've gotten part of the book written, make sure you go back and at least make a note of the change so you remember to add it in to the earlier part of the book.

Short story versus novel? Honestly, an idea can usually go either way. But is this a story that needs a lot of telling? Is there a huge world, and a long storyline and compelling characters that have enough depth to be fleshed out? Or is it a one-off, something you'll write, and it will be good?

Something I've used with success is writing a short story about the novel. This could even be used later on in the book, if you do it right, and it will give you a feel for the necessary length of story.

Overall, go with your gut. Each of us has a different story, a different style, and only we know what will really work for us.

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FIFTHWIND
FLOUNDER? I 'ARDLY KNOW 'ER!


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 3050
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, Mornara offered some good, solid advice.

Now, I'll say my peace as briefly as possible.

The writer's focus should be from the top down, not the bottom up. There are basically 5 writing elements, starting small and growing in size and scope.

Here they are, listed in order: Word, Sentence, Paragraph, Scene, and Story.

Most writers (arguably the weaker ones) put the most emphasis starting with the 'Word" and gradually tapering off as they move up the line. That's why young writers —like many of you— are so obsessed with vocabulary and "beautifully constructed" sentences, but rarely ever manage to get a whole story written. And even if you do, the story takes the back seat behind the "prose".

So, lots of "writers" do the following.

AMAZING words ..... REMARKABLE sentences ..... GREAT Paragraphs ..... GOOD scenes ..... AVERAGE story.

If you apply the gradient in the opposite manner, you end up with a more memorable product. This is what a good "story-teller" does:

AMAZING story ..... REMARKABLE scenes ..... GREAT Paragraphs ..... GOOD sentences ..... AVERAGE words.

That is what I've meant from time to time when I've talked about the difference between a good writer and a good story-teller. Very Happy

***after all, there doesn't need to be anything remarkable about a sentence, but for how it forms a larger image.

So, ask yourself: Is your focus on a beautiful story or on beautiful words?

How does this relate to your question? Start with the BIG picture and whittle it down to the details. Instead of taking a handful LITTLE details and trying to "piece together" a story out of them. Work from the top... down.

Oh, and BTW, if anyone thinks they can do: Amazing...Amazing...Amazing...Amazing...Amazing...

You're kidding yourself. Wink

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Elanor
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 329
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, both of you. You are a gold mine!
Yes, I know in which end to start. It's just sorting out my thoughts that I'm struggling with. Planning is hard. And not knowing what works best for me (you know, since we're all different and all that).
But your tips looks very helpful and practical Mornara; I will definitely give them a try.
I feel much more prepared now.
At least prepared to prepare...
It's just... a little scary Embarassed
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FIFTHWIND
FLOUNDER? I 'ARDLY KNOW 'ER!


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 3050
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Join the club.

But don't let it frighten you. Rough drafts don't bite... there is plenty of time before you will be seriously judging yourself during the revisions. Then, you can get scared. Twisted Evil

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Elanor
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something to look forwards to then!
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min-i
Teller of Tales
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Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: In the Sunshine.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I copied and printed out Mornara's and Fifth's advice, here... Just so I can look back on it and remind myself. I think I might tape it to my mirror, actually.

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